FEATS

[BobGrant]

Saeryns feat is not even as good as eskarres feat. Pdennys feat is one of the top three feats in the game. End of story.

Nope,

There are things you can do to circumvent both of those feats, and Skarre's effects max 5 models.

Nothing you can do about Saeryns so it is therefore better.

And you don't even play warmachine anymore, you don't count.

[Batman]

Saeryn is battle group only! For the love of god even at fifty points what are you running four beasts? Eskarres feat is ranged and melee. If you really think saeryns feat is better then pdennys you really don't understand the way this game works at its most basic level.

[BobGrant]

Saeryn is battle group only! For the love of god even at fifty points what are you running four beasts? Eskarres feat is ranged and melee. If you really think saeryns feat is better then pdennys you really don't understand the way this game works at its most basic level.

"For the love of gawd", Saeryn lists, at 50 are usually still just the battle group and some shepherds or forsaken, martyrs, and deathstalkers. 6 beasts will be quite common at 50. You have to go higher than 50 for her to not want to run mostly beasts.

Perhaps its my own experience, or perhaps you understand what the game has evolved into, "at its most basic level."

but I have never had skarres or Denny's feat matter in the games I've played either of them. I was able to stack enough buffs to counter denny's debuffs and in skarres case I was able to use attacks that don't require targets on her feated models to still kill them, and then her.

[Batman]

I'm done. Its like talking to a frakking wall.

[BobGrant]

I'm done. Its like talking to a frakking wall.

I was thinking the same thing, except it would be a angry and miserable wall.

[tommy2tone]

Sorry bob but I totally agree with rich 100% ur missing the important points

[BobGrant]

Sorry bob but I totally agree with rich 100% ur missing the important points

Your incorrect, there is a VAST difference between missing and not agreeing with. I understand your important points perfectly, I just don't agree.

[tommy2tone]

Except u only adress half of them

[tommy2tone]

List of things I feel u need to adress. Also remember I don't care how these feats counter each other so u can leave that out of it.

1. How do u plan on making melee attacks when u can't charge. There is no way to over come a speed debuff in that sense.
2. If u arnt makin melee attacks I hope all of ur rnged attacks have tru or eyeless sight
3. How exactly do u plan on killin things that r usin skare's feat because ashes to ashes just ain't gonna kill skare or jacks unless they have very few boxes left n lord know blast damage ain't doin it.
4. What model of importance cares about takin a free strike from an angel's pow 14 non ap attack? I will gladly disengage and shoot the piss outta it n simply rengage with models of lower value after I'm done shooting it. 

[ikazuyr]

Am I the one here who is going to have to point out the irony that the type of list Bob brings completely negates Saeryn's feat?  How can you think it's the best feat when your own lists wouldn't care one bit about it?

[BobGrant]

List of things I feel u need to adress. Also remember I don't care how these feats counter each other so u can leave that out of it.

1. How do u plan on making melee attacks when u can't charge. There is no way to over come a speed debuff in that sense.
2. If u arnt makin melee attacks I hope all of ur rnged attacks have tru or eyeless sight
3. How exactly do u plan on killin things that r usin skare's feat because ashes to ashes just ain't gonna kill skare or jacks unless they have very few boxes left n lord know blast damage ain't doin it.
4. What model of importance cares about takin a free strike from an angel's pow 14 non ap attack? I will gladly disengage and shoot the piss outta it n simply rengage with models of lower value after I'm done shooting it.  

1. The same way I make attacks when I can charge, I shoot them. melee sucks. But if I have to melee, leash, slipstream

2. kaelyssa, stormfalls aoe's which are even better under Ossyans feat, Best spray in the game in discordia, 3rd best in typhon are in lists I play

3. How I killed her last time, moved a shredder near her, targeted it, sprayed boosted damage on her.

4. Most things that survive that free strike (beasts, jacks), have a low rat, so defense 15 will still be a problem. And a boosted pow 14 will still hurt them some.

[BobGrant]

Am I the one here who is going to have to point out the irony that the type of list Bob brings completely negates Saeryn's feat?  How can you think it's the best feat when your own lists wouldn't care one bit about it?

SHUSHHHHHHHHHhhh you weren't supposed to tell everyone that.

On a more serious note,  My lists care even less about pDenny's feat, eSkarre's feat can be negated by my lists too, I can kill things without targeting them.

So from that respect its a wash.

[tommy2tone]

Responses to responses:
1. If melee sucks why is saeryns feat the best in the game?
2. If I am with 14" of discordia or 12" of typhon their rat is 3 so u need 13s to hit. Unless u r playin rayvn n then u won't be able to kill her with 1 shot anyway. Thphon u would need incite to hit with 11s u should still only hit 2 n then u could boost damage on 1 unless u hit the 1st 2 so that's possible. Stormfalls...pow 7 aoe 3 that u have to hope don't deviate off of me n then roll dice minus 7 if I'm camping no focus...even with the feat n ur dice rolling this is just stupid. Kaelyssa with syphon energy n true sight n rof 3 could do some damage but no way can do it by herself. Plus if she is in for feat there is a good chance u r gonna miss at least 1 of those attacks.
3. U still have to hit her n then damage her n that is gonna take a lot of fury. If there are sprays on the table n she doesn't camp focus then all u did was cash in on some1 elses huge mistake. I'm sure u taught them a valuable lesson tho.
4. They will most likely have a lower rat but realize that once ur angel is hit it dies very quickly and what happens when it is tied up again after they r done shooting it if its not alrdy dead. U won't be in any kind of shape to take free strikes that's for sure. The feat is good but in my opinion running up an engaging things with an angel cause u can ignore free strikes is the wrong move in a lot of situations. Blight bombing things is a great counter for this but u can only cast it once per turn. Its very hard to handle lists with high model counts. cra is another nightmare for u here. It can hit accuratly n hard.

[BobGrant]

Responses to responses:
1. If melee sucks why is saeryns feat the best in the game?
2. If I am with 14" of discordia or 12" of typhon their rat is 3 so u need 13s to hit. Unless u r playin rayvn n then u won't be able to kill her with 1 shot anyway. Thphon u would need incite to hit with 11s u should still only hit 2 n then u could boost damage on 1 unless u hit the 1st 2 so that's possible. Stormfalls...pow 7 aoe 3 that u have to hope don't deviate off of me n then roll dice minus 7 if I'm camping no focus...even with the feat n ur dice rolling this is just stupid. Kaelyssa with syphon energy n true sight n rof 3 could do some damage but no way can do it by herself. Plus if she is in for feat there is a good chance u r gonna miss at least 1 of those attacks.
3. U still have to hit her n then damage her n that is gonna take a lot of fury. If there are sprays on the table n she doesn't camp focus then all u did was cash in on some1 elses huge mistake. I'm sure u taught them a valuable lesson tho.
4. They will most likely have a lower rat but realize that once ur angel is hit it dies very quickly and what happens when it is tied up again after they r done shooting it if its not alrdy dead. U won't be in any kind of shape to take free strikes that's for sure. The feat is good but in my opinion running up an engaging things with an angel cause u can ignore free strikes is the wrong move in a lot of situations. Blight bombing things is a great counter for this but u can only cast it once per turn. Its very hard to handle lists with high model counts. cra is another nightmare for u here. It can hit accuratly n hard.

1. because its funnier that way, and because being in melee, impedes the best thing in the game, shooting.

2.key word here, "unless you are playing ravyn". I do that a lot  I can keep discordia out of range of the feat, then locomotion it in and do my thing.  Typhon also usually isn't getting hit with the feat, I can do more to move him around with vayl with slipstream and leashe than ravyn can, he's probably getting missed by the feat and then moving up in her face and doing what he does.

3.  So Typon under the feat, rat3, put chiller on the shredders u ran close to skarre, incite is up,  your now rat 7, you boost the hit, your hitting defense 17 on average, so you need below average rolls to hit skarre.

4.  If a bunch of things leave engagement and take free strikes to get out of melee so that they can cra the angel, the free strikes probably killed enough stuff to make it all worth it.

5. <3 you Tommy

[tommy2tone]

Let me begin by sayin I give up after this n agree to disagree

1. Whatever
2. If ur playin rayvn u can't kill her her in 1 shot. I can see the typhon vayl thing but realize that it is 1 list that does very specific things that other lists cannot do or even do things close to.
3. Again maybe. Still hard to do with camping focus. Let's not forget about a tar pit here either. Its not like ur gonna walk right up an open board here
4. I'm not talikng about disengaging with them. If u use an angel to tie up 3 or 4 infantry for a turn that's fine with me. I was talkin about disengaging with other models of importance. The cra is just an added threat to shooting u after other models disengage.
5. I <3 u more 

In conclusion I feel like u are only looking at these matchups against ur lists and what u can do which is very very diff that other factions. Especially legion. In my OPINION these 2 feats create rly bad matchups for a larger # of lists than any other in the game.